Through their first eight games of the season, Owen-Gage averaged 67 ppg. Last night against Caseville, they exceeded that average by 32 points, beating the Eagles 99-52.
Earlier in the season when these two teams tangled, the Bulldogs won 82-49, with the 82 points being a season-high at that point.
I'm not going to offer an opinion either way on this, but just put up some facts and let you decide.
Here are some facts that might indicate they were trying to run up the score:
1. Heading into the fourth quarter, Owen-Gage led by 28 points (74-46)...definetly a very comfortable lead.
2. In the final eight minutes, they converted on three three-point chances; I'm not sure how many they shot.
3. According to reports from the game, most of the starters were in the game until the final two minutes.
4. According to reports, Bulldog's coach Derek Howard seemed to be scoreboard watching. He was visually agitated when the team missed an easy opportunity for a lay-up in the fourth.
Here are some facts that might indicate otherwise:
1. Owen-Gage wasn't putting any full-court pressure on Caseville in the final quarter. So they weren't trying to create quick turnovers or easy baskets with defensive pressure.
2. The Bulldogs did get some fast break chances off of steals, but they didn't appear to be fast breaking every time down the court, they did run a regular set offense.
3. Had Owen-Gage wanted to score 100 for sure, they wouldn't have pulled some of the starters. I believe the team is eight or nine deep, so it's not like they could have taken everyone out.
4. Caseville has given up over 80 points twice this season prior to the game, so the Eagles surely have some holes on defense.
Those are the facts as I know them. From what I've heard, read and been told, I see Owen-Gage as a team that had a chance to try to score 100 and went for it. In the process, the score got out of hand. Is that running it up or not? Yes and no.
By going for 100, the score got more lopsided, but I think that when you are running up the score there has to be some malice, some intention to make a point or embarras your opponent.
Was Caseville embarrased by losing by 47? That remains to be seen. I think we can safely assume yes.
But did Owen-Gage seek out to embarrass them? I don't think so, I think they saw an opportunity and tried to take it. It is such a fine line, I mean can you do one and not do the other.
The only incident I can remember of a team intentionally trying to score 100 on a team was a Caseville-Port Hope game years ago, back when Jim Quinn was leading the Eagles, who ran through the NCTL like a hot knife through butter for several seasons. Quinn boldly proclaimed after the game that his team was trying to send a message.
Until I hear similar words come out of the mouth of Derek Howard, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But that's my opinion. The point of this post is for you to make the call...
8 years ago
20 comments:
Here is my opinion on why it was not "running up the score" and I was there. First, off Owen-Gage played with 7 players last night, Nick Zaleski didn't play due to sickness. Therefore, with only 7 players most of your starters are going to play. Second, as far as full-court pressure, Owen-Gage played a 2-3 zone and a 1-2-2 just above the 3-point line (on the defensive end of the floor), last time I checked that's not full-court. Finally, Caseville was running the floor just as much as Owen-Gage and firing up shots it just so happened their shots didn't go in. Caseville did get multiple shots on possessions.
What comes around goes around.
Owen-Gage scores 99 to Caseville's 52 and that is considered running up the score? Well look what North Huron did to Caseville on Jan. 5th. "It was total domination in the first half for the Warriors as they scored 36 points in the first quarter and led 59-18 at the half. The final score as it was reported to me was 81-33" (Tribune Blog). Yet, I didn't see a break down on how that was running up the score and how it wasn't. If my math is correct, NH beat them by 48 and OG beat them by 47..looks like NH ran up the score too.
When I here people start complaining about one school running up the score on another school in any sport I always want to say to them. Hey why don't you stop wasteing your energy crying and do something to get better.
This is in response to the debate if whether O-G ran up the score on purpose against Caseville Monday night. I was a spectator at that game and in no way was O-G trying to run up the score. One of O-G's starters had the flu and was not even at the game, which left them with seven players. Come on people, I repeat seven players and O-G does not have the luxury to have a lot of potential players come out for a sport where they are able to keep the more talented players on the team. Anyone who comes out for the sport at O-G makes the team. Coach Howard even started a player who gets a limited minutes of playing time since this is his first year of organized basketball. The other two on the bench were switched in and out like every 4-5 minutes, and in fact there was only one guard in the last 3-4 minutes. The last quarter, coaches Howard and Swiastyn were encouraging their players to get the ball to a player who hadn't scored yet and doesn't usually do much scoring in games, so I definitely don't think they were trying to run up the score. By doing that, they lost possession several times. But as a spectator who paid to watch a game, I'm glad that both teams continued to run plays and played to the best of their abilities--I didn't pay to watch a team stand there with the ball just to let the clock run, they're out there to do what they spend time practicing (plays), not to just stand there waiting for the clock to run down.
Anoymous No. 3, you can't say NH ran it up. They played hard in the first half, and only scored 22 points in the second half. Now tell me how that's running it up? Personally, I don't think either team was running up the score, especially NH. I was at that game, NH could have scored 120 if they wanted to. I was surprised they were able to keep it under 90.
Paul P.
Good discusion. And to all, I didn't write this post saying they did run it, at the end I took the opposite opinion.
However, any time you get near 100, that discsssion will come up, especially when the only other team that came even close (I think they got 94) admitted that is what they were trying to do.
Again in this case I see no malice, but I think it makes for an interesting debate.
We've heard a lot from those defending Owen-Gage, anyone out there that feels the oppsoiite?
I can't have an opinion on this game because I wasn't there, but running up the score does happen. It's happened in the thumb and everywhere else. Some coaches are just jerks like that.
Yeah, I've seen jerks as coaches and those who run up the score to embarrass the other team, but in NO way is Coach Howard one of those!!!! Why play a game if you're not gonna play it in the way it's intended to play?--shooting the ball in the hoop. I'm sure if O-G was running up the score, they definitely could have been well over the century mark, but Caseville played hard and were shooting, too, just didn't seem to drop for them the 2nd half.
The only thing I have issue with is shooting 3 pointers in the fourth, with a 28 point lead heading in.
I'm no saying don't play or don;t shoot, but shooting threes. That looks bad
O-G Play some defense.
why is this garbage even being talked about? seriously, we write up an article on the game and ask fans to debate if its running up the score? what the hell! this really is a joke.
Can we have artilces on how well North Huron is doing and about the big game in Harbor Beach tonight or maybe the log jam in the GTW could make for a good story? debating about a team running up the score, c'mon!
For a garbage topic it sure has gotten a lot of discussion... might not be your cup of tea, but obviously people care about it.
As for the game in HB, probably iwll be cancelled, but could be big as HB should be eliminated from the title race tonight.
Sounds like O-G was practicing 3-point shots. Should not they have been practicing inside the paint shots?. Coaches know, I don't.
Would love to see the Bulldogs pull off a major upset and win the "D" district vs BCAS & NH.
Go Bulldogs!!!
Most of OG's offense comes from behind the 3-point line, however, they do drive to the basket. Owen-Gage made 15 3-pointers (45 points), 6 for 10 from the free throw line (6 pts.), and the other 44 points came between the free throw line to the basket. The only thing OG does not have on most schools in the NCTL and will face against All Saints is height. So rebounding has been a major problem for the Bulldogs all season. To make up for that, the coaches have told the players to push the ball whenever they can. However, the most important thing the coaches preach is playing with maximum effort and with heart. The players can't control the win and losses because good teams win, but they can control the amount of effort and heart they put into the game.
Why create contraversy where there was none. I heard no one say the score was "run up", but the local media insists on making a story out of it. Leave it alone and find something more meaningful to write about. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can come up with something.
L Braun,
Blogs are for discussion. This isn't a story we would run with for the paper, but it does make for an interesting dicssuion, which based on the number of posts that are here, people feel like discussing it.
And I never said anyone ran up the score, I presented arguments for both sides of the issue and my conclusion was in the very least to give Owen-Gage the benefit of the doubt.
As for more interesting stories, working on one right now about two Ubly players signing to play at GVSU. Hope you enjoy it, it hsould be on line later today.
I want to say thanks Chris for providing a forum to have this discussion. Somtimes especially as parents, we need a place to vent anonymously and then move on. I don't believe this was bashing anyone, just one thing people wonder about.
I couldn't disagree more, I actually can't believe this is even an issue. First of all, Chris I realize you can't be at every game but "according to reports" is not a very classy way of writing anything. It is obvious that your column was written according to reports from people from Caseville. All of your examples of how the score was run up are invalid. Coach Howard actually started a first year foreign exchange student and his best player wasn't even at the gym due to illness. In the fourth quarter you can stall if you want but I don't see any issue with letting the kids play. When you have only 7 guys there isn't a lot he can do. As far as the visible aggrevated by a missed layup that was the result of the miss being by the German kid who had not scored yet. I am at all their games and have noticed that the coaches do their best to give him opportunities to be successful as often as they can. Oh and for everyone who thinks shooting 3pointers is the best way to run a score up you must not be very educated. Look at any stat line in any game and you'll see that shooting layups opposed to 3balls is a way higher percentage shot, if the Bulldogs wanted they could have had countless layups that would've pushed them well into the 100s. By the way whoever wrote that what goes around comes around is also exactly right. There was a time not so long ago when Caseville among others didn't have a problem beating OG 80something to 30something. Is it running the score up if the final was 79-32 because the point differential is the same? Now the kids from Owen-Gage get to feel bad about a record setting night, what a wonderful forum, nice job!!!!!!
Anonymous,
Three-pointers are a less high percentage shot, but your team and I'm saying your team, because you are obviosuly an Owen-Gage fan or parent, makes more threes per game then just about every other team in the area.
So for your team I'd say there isn't as much of a difference between their outside shooting and shooting inside the arc. 40 percent of the shots made by the Bulldogs in that game were threes.
And as for the information i presented, you have looked at it and feel it wasn't running up the score.
That was the WHOLE POINT!!!
Look at the info and draw your own conclusion. In fact, at the end of what I wrote, I said let's give Coach Howard the benefit of the doubt and say he wasn't trying to run things up.
As for my source, wasn;t anyone from Caseville, just someone who saw the game and doesn't want to get in the middle of this discussion.
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